The Rapture (UPDATE)

Posted by JRed

NOTE: I believe that a literal Rapture event will take place. Regardless of what I believe about when this event will occur, I am READY FOR ALL POSSIBILITIES whether that means escaping the Tribulation or having to endure it for some period of time.

I think anyone who visits this site will know from the outset that I believe in an actual, physical Rapture event to occur at some point during these end times. This is precisely why I chose the name "Look Up Fellowship" for this ministry.

I'll admit that I've always kept an open mind, however, about the timing (i.e. Pre-Tribulation; Mid-Tribulation; Post-Tribulation; 2 Raptures interpretations), and have also listened to what some sincere Christians have had to say about us having to experience some of the horrors that are in store for this planet and humanity during Daniel's 70th Week. I guess you could say that I'm still listening - - to some extent.

Why? Because that just fits with the general approach of this ministry, which is to be willing to consider alternate views from other Brothers and Sisters in Christ so that I can prayerfully consider whether or not any of them have any merit. The hope is that one person might have a small piece of the puzzle while someone else has another small piece. Together those pieces make a complete whole and help us to better understand God's plan.

Ultimately, I hope it goes without saying that EVERYTHING must agree with God's Word as found in His Holy Bible or it isn't to be taken as truth.

That being said, my intent with this entry is not to start an intense and on-going debate about the existence or the timing of the Rapture. Instead, I simply want to share something significant that Petros (a community member) alerted me to recently.

The author of an article he referenced makes the case that the Rapture is spoken of quite unmistakably in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Furthermore, the writer provides what I think is crystal clear evidence that the meaning of the Greek noun apostasia has been misinterpreted from its original or more common definition.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 - - "Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction."

Rather than include the entire article here for you to read (it's not long though) I'll give you a little taste of some of the incredible conclusions that are presented. Here are some amazing snippets from this eye-opening piece:

"I believe that there is a strong possibility that 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking of the rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists,like myself, think that the Greek noun apostasia, usually translated 'apostasy,' is a reference to the rapture and should be translated 'departure.' Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord will not come until the rapture comes before it. If apostasia is a reference to a physical departure, then 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is strong evidence for pretribulationism."

"The Greek noun apostasia is only used twice in the New Testament...The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith."

"Again, how would the Thessalonians, or Christians in any century since, be qualified to recognize the apostasy when it should come, assuming, simply for the sake of this inquiry, that the Church might be on earth when it does come? There has been apostasy from God, rebellion against Him, since time began."

"I wonder if you have noticed the striking parallel between this verse and verses 7-8, a little further down. According to your suggestion verse 3 mentions the departure of the church as coming first, and then tells of the revealing of the man of sin. In verses 7 and 8 we find the identical sequence. Verse 7 tells of the removal of the Church; verse 8 says: 'And then shall that Wicked be revealed.' Thus close examination of the passage shows an inner unity and coherence, if we take the word apostasia in its general sense of 'departure,' while a superficial examination would easily lead to an erroneous interpretation as 'falling away' because of the proximity of the mention of the man of sin."

"The fact that apostasia most likely has the meaning of physical departure is a clear support for pretribulationism. If this is true, (Dr. Tim LaHaye and I believe that it is), then it means that a clear prophetic sequence is laid out by Paul early in his Apostolic ministry. Paul teaches in 2 Thessalonians 2 that the rapture will occur first, before the Day of the Lord commences. It is not until after the beginning of the Day of the Lord that the Antichrist is released, resulting in the events described by him in chapter 2 of 2 Thessalonians. This is the only interpretation that provides hope for a discomforted people. Maranatha!"

Personally, I found this to be the best analysis of this whole debate that I've read in quite some time. I know that there will be some who will light up the Comments Section and fiercely disagree with me, and that's ok. Like I said, I'm still keeping an open mind - - to an extent - - regarding all possibilities and scenarios (I think it's the right way to approach this topic until I can understand every related passage in the Bible for myself), but this is a pretty stunning case. In fact, I might even go so far as to state that it's a tough one to refute.

In one verse - - through the study of the true meaning of one word - - we seem to have proof that not only indicates that the Rapture is a real, future event, but we also have information that indicates when it will occur along the prophetic timeline for these last days.

Now, consider what we just looked at here last week about Daniel's Timeline and the case for the Great Tribulation beginning in either July 2009 or some time in 2010. Friends, that would mean that the Rapture (holding to a Pre-Trib position as was just demonstrated above) is closer than ever before! We could be talking months or even weeks, but no more than another year or so!

Could it be!?! Is God beginning to quicken the pace of this "unsealing" in these last days so that we will become emboldened in our faith, and share this news with anyone and everyone who will listen? I'm starting to believe that this is EXACTLY what's taking place here.

Please stay tuned the rest of the week because I'm putting the finishing touches on a new series of articles that takes this new revelation regarding the Rapture, mixes it with our findings from the Daniel's Timeline series, and adds an exclamation point you won't believe or want to miss!!!

Until then, keep looking up! Maranatha!!!

***UPDATE 3/3/09 : There are a few excellent comments already submitted in response to this entry. You can read them for yourself, but all make some great points and this is PRECISELY why I've found myself moving from one camp to another when it comes to the timing of the Rapture. No, I don't think it has already happened. Yes, I think it will definitely occur. Will it happen before the start of Daniel's 70th Week? Will it happen Mid-Tribulation at the 3.5 year mark? Will it occur at the end of the Tribulation at the 7 year mark? Will there be 2 distinct Rapture "escape" events? We'll soon find out, but please keep sharing your thoughts on this because there's still I lot to learn. In fact, one community member pointed out that the Daniel's Timeline main website has an entire section devoted to the Rapture that I didn't know about - - thank you. In any event, please check back often this week because I'm going to present some things that could bolster a case for the timing of this event.***

The Rapture In 2 Thessalonians 2:3
"They All Slumbered And Slept"
The Rapture
The Rapture Mentioned In Corinthians
Rethinking The Rapture Series (Parts 1-3)
Rethinking The Rapture (UPDATE)
I'm Still Watching For The Rapture
From Generation To Generation


  1. Anonymous said...

    Have you read this?

    He points to a lot of scripture that strongly indicates a POST-trib rapture.

    This is the same site where you got your daniel's timeline info too wasnt it?

  2. Anonymous said...

    I do agree that the rapture will occur, because the rapture is the first resurrection. However, to use apostasia to mean anything other than a falling away is not good exegesis. Although apostasia can mean depart, it is in the context of depart from the faith. There is no way some one can take this scripture to mean the rapture has occurred. This is the problem with pre-trib arguments. They try to hold onto any little thing they can to prove their point. My question is, does the bible state that the rapture occurred here? No it does not. You have to read into it. I like some of the analysis you do with current events, and what is happening around us everyday, but I have to say that this is a stretch, and a far one. I guess people see what they want to see and hear what they wanr to hear. I have shown in my online book and radio program exactly where the rapture occurs in the bible. It is evident to anyone with an open mind. Here's the link:

  3. Anonymous said...

    Oh, and I forgot one thing. Even if it means departure/rapture, then it is before the day of the Lord, which according to scripture is a day of wrath. Thus, the rapture will occur before God's wrath, which we are not appointed to. According to scripture, the wrath of God is the bowl judgments in revelations. Therefore, the day of the Lord will not come until before the wrath of God, which is after the tribulation.

  4. Armageddon Thru To You said...

    Not to invite a debate here, but the entire post-trib argument is primarily based on that one verse in Rev 14:15. If that verse didn't exist, all of the other reasons for a post-trib rapture would not hold water.

    Admittedly, I too "had" been keeping an open mind about a post-trib rapture because of Rev 14:15 as well, even though it violated the Jewish Wedding model and conflicted with several other verses supporting the pre-trib rapture model, including the following: 1 The 5:9 "For God did not appoint us to wrath" and Isa 26:20-21 "(20) Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. (21)For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

    I'm now confident that the rapture is pre-trib because Pastor Dr. Renald Showers does a great job of explaining what that harvest mentioned in Rev 14:15 really is. The videos, most of which are short, are here and you only need to watch parts 1-10 and 18. I have since found older sermons by Pastor Floyd Jones and others who state the exact same thing as Pastor Dr. Showers. When you watch the videos, it will all make sense.

    By the way, there's also more prophetic meaning to the barley, wheat and grape harvests than you might have realized that also corroborates a pre-trib rapture. This is related to the issue raised by Pastor Dr. Renald Showers. Read the following...

    What are the main harvest seasons in Israel? The first harvest begins at Passover. It is the barley harvest. Barley and wheat are planted at the same time, but the barley ripens first. The first fruits of the barley harvest are waved at Passover. Barley is a soft grain. It is easily separated from the chaff by a process called winnowing. The Barley is caught up with a winnowing fork and thrown into the air (rapture). The chaff blows away and the barley is left.

    This is a picture of the church. Those of us that have surrendered to Jesus during the church age are barley. Our hearts are soft toward God and we accept Him easily. Our harvest time began at Passover when Jesus was resurrected as the first fruits of salvation. Jesus fed the 5000 with barley loves and instructed his disciples to collect the remaining pieces so that nothing would be lost. We Christians will be collected at the end so that none are lost, but first we must be broken to feed the multitude. Our harvest time lasts until Pentecost when the wheat harvest begins. Just like the barley harvest, our harvest ends and a new harvest begins at Pentecost. At Pentecost, the first trump sounds and the barley harvest of Christians is finished. We are caught up into the air and separated from the chaff.

    The second harvest in Israel is the wheat harvest. The wheat harvest begins at Pentecost. Wheat is a hard grain. It is not separated by winnowing like the barley. It must be threshed or beaten to separate the wheat from the chaff. This is a picture of the Tribulation Saints. They will be too hardened to go in the first rapture that takes place at the first trump on Pentecost. Jesus allows them to be beaten by the Antichrist until the harvest is separated from the chaff.

    When they separated the wheat from the chaff, they used a board which they stood on while an animal pulled them over the wheat separating the grain. That board is called, in Latin, a ‘tribulum’ from which we get the word, ‘tribulation’. There is NO ‘tribulum’ used at Passover through Pentecost with the barley harvest. This harvest too ends and eventually a new harvest begins at Rosh Hashanah. At Rosh Hashanah the last trump sounds and it is time for the last harvest.

    The final harvest in the fall is the grape harvest. The grapes must be crushed to harvest the wine. This represents those that will accept Jesus during the time of the trumpet judgments. They will be crushed but those that hang on will be the ones who repopulate the millennium. The grape harvest is over by Tabernacles.

    There are three main harvests, barley, wheat and grapes. In each of the harvests there are three stages. The first stage is the first fruits. Jesus was the first fruit of the church age. Then comes the main harvest which has taken place over the centuries since the Resurrection. Finally there is the gleaning where the last remaining portion of the crop is gathered. We are in the gleaning phase now. Don’t be hard like wheat and miss out on the barley harvest. You don’t want to be threshed.

    And as far as "possibly" finding more corroboration for the 6,000 year end of creation in 2017, please look at my message #11 at this link

  5. Unworthy1 said...

    Hello all. I come out of a church that teaches pre-tribulationism, and that is what I believed up to a couple of years ago. I ran across some excellent teaching which can be found here:

    Read the articles on the left side of the page. The author is VERY thorough and I'm sure he will clear up any questions you may have.

    I truly believe that if you read this, you too will be convinced that we as the church need to prepare and expect to go through the tribulation soon to come.

    I wish that were not the case, but what I wish is not important. Either way, it looks like we will know within a year or so which view is correct, eh?

    Peace to you all.

  6. Unworthy1 said...

    Here's another link that ties in well with what has been covered over the past week that adds another piece to the puzzle. The early church understood the six days of creation equals 6000 years of human history prior to the return of Jesus Christ (a day is as a thousand years).

    Check this out:

    (Oh, and why do I have to re-register every time I want to post a comment? It tells me my password is wrong and I have to re-sign up...)

  7. Anonymous said...

    I heard many years ago, and don't remember how, just know it STUCK
    with me, that the term "falling away" meant departure. e.g. as gravity holds us to this earth, we have to "fall away" from the earth...or raptured before the antichrist can come on the world scene - afterthe Holy Spirit is removed...through the Church being removed with the rapture.

  8. Anonymous said...

    I noticed your posts about Ceres, and also that you are planning on reading David Flynn's book. Well, you simply MUST read this new post made by David Flynn on his forum...Ceres gets an interesting mention. Again, you need to read this! God bless. :)

  9. JRed said...


    What was the name of the thread where he mentions Ceres?

    I clicked the link you provided, but it took me to a 2 comment thread where there was no mention of it.

    I'm itching to see what he adds to all of this. Thank you.

    In Christ,

    Jeff (JRed)

  10. Jim said...

    There’s no such thing as The Antichrist, and for a truly objective and conclusive refutation of the “secret pre-Trib. Rapture of the Saints,” check out

  11. Unworthy1 said...


    I agree with the "no pre-trib rapture" part. Can you elaborate on the "no anti-christ" part? Are you suggesting that there will be no spiritually corrupt world leader that comes on the scene to deceive prior to the return of the Lord?